Oh I understand your reasoning, I've been on that side of it at vBORG years ago and when I had I just disagree that it's a valid business decision. Worrying about a few cry babies doesn't lead to success. Selling quality products leads to success. Facetime is everything in sales. The longer you wait the more unknown you will be over there. But of course it's your business. I had just noticed your old threads there and was wondering what happened.

I've been out of the forum business for a few years due to health issues and came back a couple months ago to find vBulletin a mess and the community basically gone or mad. I am now moving to XenForo because it's quite clearly a superior product. From a code standpoint and a user one. Now that the lawsuit is over development is full on.

Take care
From a purely financial standpoint the market would have to be profitable. At the moment it is a fraction of the size of vBulletin's market, and if the uptake rate of both products continues in a linear fashion it would talk, by the data i have been able to gather, about 12 years for XenForo to have the same number of customers as vBulletin.

Basically there isn't any profit to be made going into the XenForo market as it stands for us. If we went in it would be making a loss in order to build a base for the future of XenForo - the current status of the community makes building that kind of base significantly more difficult than it would have to be in order for it to be an attractive proposition for us.

Essentially, backing xF would be a significant risk in the hopes of making a profit somewhere down the line. The market has enough factors making that difficult or unattractive that the risk, at the moment, simply isn't worth it.

If there is a single coder making a good living from the work they release on XenForo forums I would be utterly astounded. I doubt it'll be much more than a hobbyist market for the next few years to be honest, unless someone expends significant capital and/or effort building up a premium market.


Here's something I stumbled across recently that shows two very important points:

First, Kier and Mike are awesome. We love those guys and it genuinely makes me sad we're not working with XF purely because we'd love to be helping them grow their platform.

Second, even Kier finds the attitudes of large sections of the XF community pretty horrific when it comes to their attitudes towards mod developers:

Kier said:
I shall use my perogative as owner of this site to have the last word.

Do you, or do you not want developers to release free add-ons? If you are happy to pay, then maybe you can negotiate terms of how their credit or copyright is displayed, but I doubt it. If you are getting the code for free, then you damned well better display their credit, out of gratitude if nothing else. And if that means a link in your footer, then that's absolutely legitimate. Want to get rid of that link? Negotiate a respectful sum with the developer, or use a different add-on. No alternative add-on available? Then you're going to display that link in your footer, or your site is no better than a pirate.

Do I have objections to a 'powered by' page? No, not at all, it's a great idea. Is this an excuse to talk about how terrible it is that some developers want their credits displayed in your site footer? Absolutely not, and I am horrified by some of the attitudes described in this thread. I'd prefer not to have my code running on your site. It is perfectly valid for a developer to demand a credit in your site footer for software that you run that helps to run your site. Don't like it? Fine. Go elsewhere, but you have no right to complain.
(Emphasis mine)

Source: No Thanks - Powered by Page | XenForo Community

it's an older thread, but it's as valid today as it ever was.


Another update on this for those interested:

DragonByte Tech add-ons not coming to XF anytime soon | Page 2 | XenForo Community

For those who don't want to read the last page, which are all posts from the last few days, contains a few attacks on DBTech as well as flat out lies (someone claims we have discontinued all the products they bought for vBulletin from us). That's the representation we get of the XF community, even today.
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I think that those peeps bashing db are folks that have defected from vb and did not own any of your pro products but i can see why the db team's hesitation with going into that market very un appreciated people to say the least ... vb imo with vb5 are going in the wrong direction its terrible imo i can see why a lot are finding other alternatives ..

now with that said the only thing holding me to vb at all is the db products nothing really compares
I just want to pop my head in here :)

I am working on purchasing xenforo after using vbulletin for years. I for one, understand the community can be a craphead but maybe we could do a compromise?

Would you, as a site consider doing a poll to see who would use your xenforo products if you made some? I assure you that many of us love your work and wouldn't let haters bring you down. Whether you released it only on your site for people who'd only be here for your products anyway then migrate to xenforo (where we can of course leave feedback about how much we love it since we'll have been using them xP).

There really are a ton of forums going to xenforo (or even IPB) and leaving vbulletin behind. The amount of people buying now may be acceptable, but unless they get their stuff together they won't be even in the top 3 soon enough.

Heck you could even always do the products under another name specifically made for xenforo products. :)

EDIT: Just realized the last post was from May 2013, not May 2014. Sorry for the necro post! I was googling for your products with xenforo and I came across this.
Hi Decado, I wish you guys would reconsider XenForo again, the community has been getting better, I think the attitude has changed a lot post lawsuit. I've spent hundreds of dollars in DBTECH Mods because of the following:

1. You guys keep your products up to date.
2. You guys offer unparalleled support for your addons.
3. You guys are a trustworthy brand/company!

That's just few of the things I can think of when I think of your company and the products you guys offer!

I feel like you guys would have spent better time in developing stuff for XF vs vB5 at this time, vB5 is not going anywhere for at least a few years. I am not saying abandon the vB boat, but I think expanding into XF would be a positive change for you guys.
Don't let trolls discourage you guys, some of your premier plugins from vBulletin would do an awesome job over at XF. For example your donation system would blow anything out there out of the water at this point!
vB optimise could be another thing that a lot of big board owners might be interested in purchasing.

Anyways I needed to put my 2 cents again this year since I really want to see DBTECH over at XenForo! :)
Sorry to bump an old thread but this was a very interesting read. Has the situation with Xenforo changed at all? I think I read in a company blog post that Belazor has been working on moving some mods over to Xenforo. Xenforo looks good. Shame DB Tech have been badly treated over there in the past, some people have no idea what's good for them!

Speaking personally I would move over to XF if DB Tech released their Advanced Post Thanks / Like mod for it. I also rely hugely on the DB Tech Advanced user tagging mod but I believe XF has something like that.