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brandondrury

Customer
Hello,

I'm 99% ready to drop $200 on vbOptomise for my forum, but I didn't see any mention of a money back guarantee. If I hate this thing or my server hates this thing I need recourse, obviously. Do I have some sort of period in which I can get my money back? It can be 3 days for all I care. I just need to know it works and I refuse to be stuck with something that doesn't.

Thanks!

Brandon
 
Hi Brandon,

We always recommend you test the lite version first. If the lite version works fine, but the Pro version does not work (and we are unable to resolve it after you provide us with ACP and FTP access) then we will refund you - those conditions have to be met though.

Sadly we cannot offer refunds to people if they simply decide they don't like the product, as is standard with digital products.

Cosmic
 
as is standard with digital products.
Standard, huh? What committee decided this? I assume you are referring to The Great Epic Fear Of Getting Ripped Off in 2004. I understand the entire universe is scrambling to figure out how to make money in an intangible world, but I can't figure out for the life of me why so many arrive at screwing over the customer.

In this case, you are insisting that I fiddle with the Lite version and then go through some kind of upgrade process. That sounds like a waste of my time when I know I want the big dog and spending $200 ain't that big of deal to me. You see, a person wasting my time is OFFENSIVE. :mad: It down right stinks. I have 7 different of products I'm eyeballing of yours and you are telling me that you don't trust me enough and I have to prove myself. Why don't you guys prove YOURSELF? Food for thought in 2013.

I'm curious why you guys are soooo afraid of people trying your scripts and not liking them, but you aren't nearly as afraid of me thinking your policy sounding VERY fishy (regardless of this imaginary "standard" you've chosen to put faith in). In other words, your post just made me close my wallet for the time being. Why aren't afraid of THAT?

This is a real pain in the ass for me. I was getting pretty damn excited about your company and it's products, but this is way too 1952 to me. Feel free to change my mind. I'm going to see if the vbSEO cache is good enough.

Brandon
 
I'll let Cosmic speak for himself on the rest of your post, but I just want to address one technical detail:
In this case, you are insisting that I fiddle with the Lite version and then go through some kind of upgrade process.
To upgrade from Lite to Pro, all you have to do is re-download the Pro version, re-upload the files, and re-import the XML file. There's no other upgrade process and none of your settings or data will be affected - you'll just have more settings than before.
 
Standard, huh? What committee decided this? I assume you are referring to The Great Epic Fear Of Getting Ripped Off in 2004. I understand the entire universe is scrambling to figure out how to make money in an intangible world, but I can't figure out for the life of me why so many arrive at screwing over the customer.

In this case, you are insisting that I fiddle with the Lite version and then go through some kind of upgrade process. That sounds like a waste of my time when I know I want the big dog and spending $200 ain't that big of deal to me. You see, a person wasting my time is OFFENSIVE. :mad: It down right stinks. I have 7 different of products I'm eyeballing of yours and you are telling me that you don't trust me enough and I have to prove myself. Why don't you guys prove YOURSELF? Food for thought in 2013.

I'm curious why you guys are soooo afraid of people trying your scripts and not liking them, but you aren't nearly as afraid of me thinking your policy sounding VERY fishy (regardless of this imaginary "standard" you've chosen to put faith in). In other words, your post just made me close my wallet for the time being. Why aren't afraid of THAT?

This is a real pain in the ass for me. I was getting pretty damn excited about your company and it's products, but this is way too 1952 to me. Feel free to change my mind. I'm going to see if the vbSEO cache is good enough.

Brandon

I think you will find that vbSEO cache doesn't work nearly as well.
vbOptimise is truly on it's own level. I would suggest that you follow the advice given about running the lite version. You will see quite an improvement.
I can tell you that I have had excellent support here on all their products.
I'm grateful they allowed me to purchase their products.
 
Thanks for the new info. I do appreciate it. :)

This is evidence that their product is what I suspected in the first place. That's a start, but I'm too old to dive in without a safety net. I've been burned before. I'm surprised they haven't been burned before in such a way that would motivate them to make customer policy that rivals their products.

Brandon
 
Hi Brandon,
This is without prejudice and no dis-respect.
Every pro product that DBT offers has a fantastic "Lite" version that you can download and even though DBT states that "pro" customers get priority support they really do support the "Lite" users as efficiently. As evidence by the Lite Support Forum, 355 threads with answers to them all within a small time frame.
This product works and works very well. Just look at the number of downloads at [DBTech] vB Optimise v2 (vB4) - vBulletin.org Forum, that alone speaks for the quality of the product.
I use this on both my sites and would not live with out it.

As for upgrading from lite to pro. It cannot be any easier. Most of the files are in the lite version anyway. It is as simple as uploading a few more files and importing another xml, that's it.
For EVERY pro product that I have purchased from DBT I have installed the lite version first. Why not, it is free and the support is outstanding. This makes DBT stand out from other software companies because you get to use 90% (Lite) of the product before spending any money at all and still receive support.
Heck some of the lite products worked so well I have not upgraded because it fits my needs perfectly. ( I know Cosmic will not like hearing that. ;))

Go ahead and try the lite version, you will not be disappointed. You have my guarantee on that. ;)
 
Again, thanks for the information. :) It's reassuring to know that Dragonbyte has pleased customers.

However, this doesn't excuse the fact that they want $200 from me and won't stand behind their product unless I jump through some hoops. Maybe these hoops aren't as high as I originally thought, but it sure feels like they are trying to repel me and my credit card than entice me. (I was 100% ready to buy yesterday until I couldn't find a guarantee.) So far I've bought nothing. That in itself is reason to question this business practice.

I bend over backwards for my customers. It's my philosophy that you NEVER EVER EVER tell a customer willing to pay $200 for a .zip download that you are so worried about the bad guys (the ones exploiting the system) that you aren't going to take care of them unless X,Y, and Z are done.

To each his own. I do have the lite version installed now. It wasn't THAT big of deal, but now I have a bad taste in my mouth about this company's policies. All of us using vBulletin don't have to look far to see companies with outstanding programmers crippled by the jokers in suits.

Maybe I'm just sick of dealing with companies relying on ancient-artificial-scarcity-at-the-expense-of-the-good-guys practices.

Brandon
 
Thanks for the new info. I do appreciate it. :)

This is evidence that their product is what I suspected in the first place. That's a start, but I'm too old to dive in without a safety net. I've been burned before. I'm surprised they haven't been burned before in such a way that would motivate them to make customer policy that rivals their products.

Brandon


I too am a crotchety old man but I try not to take it out on the undeserving.
I have used many plugins from many coders and I am now parked at DBTech 100% satisfied with their products and support.
They have helped me with problems most places won't. I'm scratching my head after reading your post over and over again. It seems you expect the product to fail.
To be quite honest, I look at buying DBTech products as a privilege. There is nothing that says they are required to sell me their hard work no matter how much money I have. From what I have seen and experienced, I believe DBTech cares more about their reputation and the quality of their products more than they care about the all mighty dollar.
The PWYW is a perfect example of their faith in the product they produce and their willingness to help customers with a limited budget out.
I don't post very often but I think you have grossly misjudged this company. DBTech truly are the GOOD GUYS!
Thank You DBTech for all the support and great plugins we enjoy! !
 
Hi brandon, thanks for the feedback.

We provide a Lite version of our products which generally has well in excess of 70% of the features of the pro version for customers to try to ensure they are happy with the product and don't run into any issues - as far as I am aware our Lite products are industry leading and no other company offers it's customers the kind of up-front guarantee as we do - to try our products you don't need to spend a dime, you can give the vast majority of the features a try, live, on your site, for absolutely nothing.

If you run into any issues we will do what we can to help you resolve them, and if after purchasing the pro version you run into any pro-specific issues that we CAN'T resolve for you, you will get a full refund.

While I agree that it would be great if we could just offer everyone a full refund for any reason, it's sadly not practical - we are a small company and there would be people demanding refunds for things outwith our control (not adding features they want instantly, taking more than 3 hours to respond to a support post and "I found a free (pirated) version online" are actual reasons we have had people try to file paypal chargebacks for.) costing us administrative time and an increased number of people "trying their luck" to get our pro products for free.

On top of the issues that causes with people buying, downloading, demanding a refund and continuing to use the product, it also creates a number of huge headaches for us organizationally - our coders are paid on a commission basis and having to sort through the increased number of refund requests would be a huge issue in regards to them being paid properly, and the time it would take. In addition it would hurt our standing (and thus the fees we pay and you as a customer pay) with PayPal, plus it encourages people to use refunds as a threat to try to coerce or blackmail us.

Having looked at all the various upsides and downsides I decided the best thing to do is have the up-front guarantee of a very fully featured "lite" version and an extremely simple and pain-free upgrade process. That way no one will get ripped off, people can make sure they are happy with the product and it works before paying a penny, and we avoid the administrative and other headaches of a free-for-all refund policy.

Hopefully you understand where we are coming from with this and can appreciate that it's a difficult situation but that we do what we can to make sure our customers (and potential customers) have all the information they need to come to a decision they will be happy with.

Regards,

Cosmic
 
DBTech truly are the GOOD GUYS!
I wish their policies reinforced this because they do feel like they have their stuff together.

If I was 25, I'd take the chance with companies with no refund policy (regardless for their intellectual property-type reasons). I'm 32 now and I've met Murphy and his laws so many times I'm starting to become friends with him. I like the Bear Gryles style of rock climbing where you always keep 3 limbs on solid ground and climb with the 4th. :)

While I agree that it would be great if we could just offer everyone a full refund for any reason, it's sadly not practical - we are a small company and there would be people demanding refunds for things outwith our control (not adding features they want instantly, taking more than 3 hours to respond to a support post and "I found a free (pirated) version online" are actual reasons we have had people try to file paypal chargebacks for.) costing us administrative time and an increased number of people "trying their luck" to get our pro products for free.
It's my experience that problems go DOWN when you offer 'em a way out. As you are probably aware, a refund request and a chargeback are wildly different things. I'm intimately familiar with both.

It's your business and I can't tell you what you should do, but I can tell you how I feel. The difference is I'm a loud mouth who likes to hear myself type. :) I'm positive there are others who wouldn't go on a crusade like I have on this thread. They just put their credit card back up and never come back. The "no refunds" policy doesn't sound like a small business of good guys. It sounds like big business coldness. That's my opinion anyway. Food for thought.:RpS_thumbsup:

If you run into any issues we will do what we can to help you resolve them, and if after purchasing the pro version you run into any pro-specific issues that we CAN'T resolve for you, you will get a full refund.
And THAT is all I wanted to hear. I'll be ordering very soon. (I've got to leave the office for now.)
 
Just a quick update. After I got what I needed in terms of a money back guarantee (more or less) I ended up purchasing the Pro version and it's running flawlessly. Great product!

I'm not sure what kind of site gives dislikes to a person who's simply trying to be careful, but I won't let that keep me from enjoying a sensational product (and many more, most likely). :)

Brandon
 
Just a quick update. After I got what I needed in terms of a money back guarantee (more or less) I ended up purchasing the Pro version and it's running flawlessly. Great product!

I'm not sure what kind of site gives dislikes to a person who's simply trying to be careful, but I won't let that keep me from enjoying a sensational product (and many more, most likely). :)



Brandon

I am an opinionated crotchety Old man that passed your age decades ago and disliked your post. I'm sure that after you have been a customer for sometime you will also feel strongly about DBTech and voice your opinion when people post things you don't see true. I'm glad you are using the product as it is a great piece of software. I am sure you will appreciate their support over time and hope you enjoy some of their other Mods. I think over time you will have to admit that dragonbyte-tech are truly the GOOD GUYS!
Take Care.
 
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